A while back I upset a few of our readers with a posting where I expressed my opinion that drinking caffeinated beverages was against the word of wisdom. It turned out to be a heated topic. For some reason it is controversial even though it seems pretty obvious to me that caffeinated beverages contain addictive levels of an addictive substance and should therefore be avoided.
But then I came across this article that I thought was worth sharing. It is possibly the most balanced explanation I have heard in a long time regarding this issue. The convincing angle of this article, (but was lacking from my post), was the emphasis that the Word of Wisdom is a spiritual law with eternal implications. Above all other man made attempts at trying to reason or compartmentalize this law, it is ultimately a spiritual law. There were many that felt that it was simply a temporal law of health and was not, as this article proves, a sign between God and his people as to their level of dedication to the covenants they have made with him. Regardless of how the original revelation was interpreted or given, modern day clarifications place the Word of Wisdom as a higher law than what it was in the early days of the church. The passover reference in the article is particularly worth checking out.
And to keep things in perspective with using man's reasoning in the rationalization or justification of certain health practices, note that the first forms of asthma treatment (see attached picture), at least in the western world, came in the form of cigarettes.
Speaking of interpreting the Word of Wisdom, where does lighting and smelling incense rest in relation to the word of wisdom? As hippie as it may be, there are many that do it or have done it, myself included. But is it a violation of the word of wisdom considering that you are choosing to inhale smoke (including burnt remains floating in the air)? If you buy and light incense is that a word of wisdom concern? I don't think I have ever heard anyone address that idea.
James, I personally think that the word of wisdom is a law that is highly individualized and think whether temporal or spiritual there are many in the church that want letter of the law approach. I think we have to be careful of this...the children of Israel needed to be commanded in all things and that was why they got a lesser law the Law of Moses. I know that I hold myself to a specific standard with regards to the word of wisdom that is completely different they what you might deem right or correct. The Word of Wisdom is a very basic commandment and is quite simple. What I have prayed about and feel is in good practice for my spiritual and physical well being is just that "WHAT I FEEL" and what you feel is just that. I think we have to be careful of pride in this case. Remember the Pharisees wanted to create rule after rule so that they could set themselves up higher then others. Pride is a fine line to walk. Live and let live what others do is between them and the Lord. If they want to burn incense or drink caffeine.
ReplyDeleteI understand that to be the standard argument when anyone attempts to make a commentary on the Word of Wisdom. But I am not saying anything that President Hinckley didn't say with regards to Caffeine. Yes a prophet said no to it!
ReplyDeleteHere is the transcript from Pres. Hinckley's interview with Larry King on CNN.:
Gordon B. Hinckley: The word of wisdom covers many things. It covers the excessive use of meat, as I see it. It covers, in a very particular way, the use of tobacco and alcohol.
Larry King: By saying no?
Gordon B. Hinckley: By saying, by proscribing those things.
Larry King: No to caffeine?
Gordon B. Hinckley: No to caffeine, coffee and tea.
For full transcript read here .
I am not declaring commandments of my own. I am simply echoing the words of a prophet for all rationalizing LDS members. No matter what personal interpretation you wish to make with the other parts of the word of wisdom there is a part that has been clarified by a prophet but has not been recognized.
Perhaps many have forgotten that comment by President Hinckley. It was back in 1998 (10 years ago on the 8th to be exact) I am simply reminding. And to those who use the crappy and weak argument that he was giving his opinion and he never said "thus saith the Lord", just remember that even if he was giving his own opinion the Lord will not punish you for following it, and has also said that the words of the prophets will never lead you astray.
As far as being a Pharisee, I am not telling people how to live their lives and I am not micromanaging their diets, I am simply emphasizing this DOCTRINE. Caffeine is no longer part of that individual choice or interpretation after a prophet declares it with such clarity.
Rabbi James, what else should we regulate verbally taking away peoples ability to judge for themselves?
ReplyDeleteIf we are going off addictive substances then we need to put extra emphases on food because of all the overweight people in the church. Clearly this is an addiction, maybe we good get the church to recommend a prescribed calorie count for us to insure that we don't break the spirit of the of eating.
James, Your response to Sarah reminded me of something that I heard in a Trueman Mandson talk on the Prophet Joseph. I consider him to be smarter than you and hope not to offend but if I do.. I guess I don't care. In his talk he spoke of many leaving the church in the early years because they found the prophets personality not fitting of a prophet of the Lord. People left because they saw him wrestling on the floor with his kids and because he would frequently challenge men to wrestling matches, stick pulls, and long jump contests. You are right in stating that the prophet does not have to say "Thus saith the Lord" for it to be wise councel and that we can gain blessings or at least better health by following it, but the fact remains that the church has never made an official statement or taken an official stand on the topic of soda pops that contain caffeine. I agree with Sarah in that "it is not needful" for the Lord to command in all things. He leaves it up to us to make the decision. I know that if many prayed about not drinking caffeine their anwswer would probably be to stop, but the fact remains that we shall all be judged on a personal basis. God is not respector of persons, but through the attonment we are all made equals. So I guess what it comes down to is whether or not this is a grievous enough sin for us to have Christ suffer for it or to suffer for it ourselves if we do not repent of it. I personally doubt that Christ shed blood for every sip of Coke or Pepsi I have drinken in my life. You still seem to be on a soap box here James and it appears that there are some, even those that agree with you, that are getting tired of it. I did enjoy the article you referenced in your post but still do not see where you justify your opinion as the law of the church. Take a step back and realize that any further discussion on this is probably futile. As Sarah put it, live and let live, what others do is between them and the Lord. This semms to almost be one of those moat and beem situations James. I applaud you for your choice to live at a higher health quality than those that may eat too much fast food and drink caffeinated beverages but in the last days I wonder if the Lord will be more concerned about me for drinking soda or you for judging each Saint you see clutched to their 64oz. coke. Work on overcoming some of your other issues James and when you are translated then start to worry about the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteI was not going to comment back on this topic because I realize that my posting and subsequent comments on this subject, even though given as blatant opinion giving, is still being taken as some attempt to micro manage peoples diets and execute heavenly justice. However, lets get this straight one more time since it seems to not be.
ReplyDeleteWhen a prophet speaks on national TV, he is speaking as a prophet. Period. I know he prayed greatly about doing it before deciding to do what he did (even said so in the following general conference). The Lord gave his stamp of approval on doing so and probably received warnings and instructions with regards to his words for that occasion. Now I ask, do you think that President Hinckley was wrong in what he said? Do you disagree with a prophets statement made to the world? That is the question that each individual should ask themselves. If you don't disagree then you should sustain them. You don't have to answer to me, but if the prophet has set the standard and it then becomes our choice to live it or not.
I am not saying people are crap if they drink caffeinated beverages, including, but not limited to caffeinated sodas. I never even implied that people that who practiced such were lesser human beings than myself or anyone else for that matter. So the fact that I am being accused of such is either sign that "the wicked are taking the truth to be hard" or some other irrational conclusion not based on the evidence of my original post.
But since the accusations have been made against me I will rebut those charges.
I find it rather ironic that every person that has posted in disdain against my shared stance with President Hinckley regarding caffeine feels every right in the world to judge everyone else for their way of life until it gets to the issue of Word of Wisdom. For example: how many posts have we seen regarding how poor people are obviously the scum of the earth and represent all that is bad in America? Did Christ ever say belittle the poor and lazy? What about all the posts talking about illegal immigration even though Pres. Hinckley stated that he felt sympathy for the plights of these people who are inspired by God in their attempts to escape a low quality of life and come to a country where they can be more fully exposed to gospel living? Let them be judged for their wrong doings if there be any in their actions. Why is it that nothing but outright hatred is expressed for people who choose to follow a certain political ideology even though it is their God given right to do so. Political stance holds less merit in the eyes of the Lord than does "a drop of pepsi" yet there are several who feel I have crossed some line when I echo and endorse prophetic teachings!
Don't sit there behind your computers and act like I am the one being all high and mighty and me alone.
The Lord prescribed specific things in the Word of the Wisdom and to a certain extent he did micromanage some of the parts of our diets. So in principle it isn't far off to even discuss this issue based on that logic alone. So why is it that when this issue is brought up it hits the "stop being a pharisee" button?
I agree Sarah that the Word of Wisdom is highly individualized but in the angle that I used in my post. It is a sign between man and God as to their level of commitment to him. But there are parts to the law that are not so individualized and take on a more universal standard. Those are the ones which have been specifically stated and clarified by a prophet of God. Not that the individual can't still make their own decisions as to whether or not to follow, but the interpretation as to what is right or correct is sealed in the heavens as such and doesn't change regardless of how WE view it.
Okay, here we go again with the, "because he said it on a talk show it is law." defense. If the Lord wanted the prophet to speak to his people he would have him do it at General Conference, not on Larry King Live, which subsequently is not carried all over the world to every saint. He would also have had the talk or interview posted in the ensign and liahona so that all those who could not hear his word could speak. We are once again caught in the same argument of whether president Hinckley was speaking propheticly when he interviewed with Larry King. My answer is going to be no. He gave his opinion on a lot of things and stated the churches policy on other things. At no time did he deal out new revelation. That kind of message or revelation is given at General Conferences and other church meetings.
ReplyDeleteAs for the pot calling the kettle black we can go back to a lot of different posts and see where opinions have been stated but James, your post on the Word of Wisdom comes under more scrutiny not because we are all hypocrits but because you took a comandment from God and made it a platform to peddle your own feelings and to tell us that if we didn't adhere to your standards that it was against the voice of the Lord in modern times. The post from M. Galt on the poor being the scum of the earth was about people peddling wellfare not a post against the poor and homeless. The posts on illegal immigration came from a man who lives in Arizona, thie state with the highest problem in identity theft. Thist identity theft comes from people stealing your information to provide illegal immigrants with documentation. It may not seem like we are being Christ like when we reduce the situation to the "illegals need to be shipped back" attack plan but when you live in an area where property values drop because you have 20 illegals living in the two bedroom house on your left and 20 illegals living in the one bedroom house on your right, the hospitals in your area go bankrupt because of the overwhelming costs of keeping their ER's open since illegals know that you don't have to have insurance to be treated at an ER, and the children in your schools are learning and progressing at a slower level because 5-10 students in an already overflowing class room can't speak English perhaps you will see the point of how illegal immigration might not be the best option. I have seen the other side of illegal immigration, wives and children left behind in the immigrants home country, and it is not pretty.
Back to the subject at hand. It basically comes down to one thing and that is a disagreement. So James, we have met at an impass. Shall we agree to disagree or do we fight this to the death? I leave that decision up to you.
I think we can agree to disagree. No there will be no fight to the death, just my perpetual curiosity as to why people feel the need to disagree with what the Prophet said with regard to this topic. Is it wrong what he said? No it isn't. So it is truth and should be embraced as such not rationalized. I would appreciate it if you would stop referring to it as my platform. I'm not God nor am I pretending to be. But just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I am wrong. Truth is not dependent on who sees it, reads it, or agrees with it. It is true regardless. You even said yourself that if people prayed about it, they would learn that they should avoid it. So why fight it?
ReplyDeletePresident Hicnkley was a prophet for a very long time. He was in the church leadership including apostleship for a very long time before that. I highly doubt that he would say what he said on national TV (and yes it is broadcast internationally), then to also go back in a general conference and say this if he wasn't speaking as a prophet:
We are interviewed frequently by the media these days. As many of you know, I recently appeared on the Larry King Live television program. I consented to do so because I felt that while there were possible hazards in it, there also was a great opportunity to speak to the world on issues before us.
In the course of the show Mr. King asked me point-blank, "What is your role? You're the leader of a major religion. What's your role?"
I replied: "My role is to declare doctrine. My role is to stand as an example before the people. My role is to be a voice in defense of the truth. My role is to stand as a conservator of those values which are important in our civilization and our society. My role is to lead."
This isn't a gospel buffet where we pick and chose what parts of what the prophet says to pay attention to. We follow with faith. Not blind faith, but with faith. We have been promised that doing so will not lead us astray. In his own words President Hinckley said that he was speaking as a prophet in declaring doctrine and that was part of his purpose in appearing on the show. So why fight to see it differently? That was in general conference. He never clarified or was censured in what he said as some brethren have been (ex. Bruce McConkie with the black in the priesthood talk). It didn't happen simply for the fact that he said nothing wrong. Call it opinion if you want to, but I don't seek excuse for what I have written.
Nor do I look for reason to justify or explain my actions. The truth of the matter is that I fully accept what I do to my own body, whether it is poluting it with toxins that can come from a soda or eating too much meat or cheese. Everything needs to be taken in stride and as it says in the scriptures "sparingly". Do I think that it is wrong to drink soda, no. Do I think it is bad for someone to drink more than a couple ounces in a day, probably. Do I think it is horrible for your body and your metabolism to chug consistantly 64 ouncer after 64 ouncer, absolutely. The point I have tried to make time and time again is that there has never, and in my opinion will never be, an official announcement stating that members of the church should not drink coke or pepsi. The word of wisdom is a spiritual law with a physical promise. I know that by eating healthy my body will last longer and function better. I do not consume the things the church has come out and said are bad and that we should stay away from and it soda was such a big deal then they would do the same with it and the missionaries would add that to their flip charts. I have seriously cut back on soda in general as I have started trying to lose weight but still enjoy a coke or pepsi every once in a while and will continue to agree to disagree with you for as long as the discussion continues. To tell you the truth though I am getting tired of it. James, I would figure by now that you were tired of yelling at a brick wall too. Lets just drop it. Some members will always believe that the Lord doesn't want us to drink soda and others will believe that the law is not that nit-picky and that those other members should keep their noses out of their business.
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