Reading D&C 29:34 we understand that even laws that appear to be temporal laws, such as the word of wisdom, are really meant to have spiritual implications. The word of wisdom and others like it are laws that are designed to help keep us free of obstacles or distractions in feeling of the spirit. For the word of wisdom, its key promise is strength to our body and minds and for us to be given wisdom and treasures of knowledge even hidden treasures. Or in other words, do not partake of things that will cause our faculties to judge righteously to be diminished or destroyed, or that will shut us off from the spirit. The word of wisdom also counsels against partaking of items that are addictive and enslaving. Sin is no respecter of person, and therefore no exceptions should be made to these laws including the person saying, "I can keep it under control-that rule doesn't apply to me because I can handle myself and won't get addicted". Such a rationalization is a lie of the adversary meant to lull the individual into a sense of complacency with sin.
While credit cards seem to have no attachment to the word of wisdom (unless you are eating them for roughage), there are principles that coincide with the counsels of warning similar to those in the word of wisdom. As coffee and tea are readily available and carry no age restrictions for consumption, many in the world consume coffee at very early ages. This consumption creates an environment of people that "can't start their day without a cup of coffee". To that end I have seen some start their lives so young with credit cards and unnecessary spending that the credit balances are rarely caught up or erased.
It is easy for a person with a credit card to rationalize the use of the card as an emergency use only, to build their credit, etc. However, the brethren have been as clear on this issue as they have on coffee and tea which could also have a rationalized benefit should you chose to see it that way. With debit, we are counseled to avoid unnecessary debt (necessary debt being defined as a house, a reasonable car, and for your education), don't become in bondage to creditors, engage in a prudent savings plan, and live within your means. Credit cards are living outside of your means, it eats up savings, and is a debt that carries an enslaving high interest rate-all in direct violation of the counsel of the brethren. If wise counsel is followed, then credit cards are not needed and the individual can avoid the bondage that is sure to follow.
Have you ever noticed that the church does not accept credit cards for tithing as many other faiths have done? Is this because the church couldn't set that up? Of course they could. And there is a very clear reason why they probably won't ever take credit cards for tithing or fast offerings. So if the above is true, that credit can be seen as an addictive practice that will consume the individual with worldly interests, then why have one to begin with? Why have a coffee maker and a can of coffee grounds if you know you shouldn't drink it? If you have a credit card will that dismiss the spirit-of course not. But having the credit card leads to using the credit card, and using the credit card leads to nothing good and wise and to practices that diminish our capacity to feel and recognize the promptings of the spirit.
???? Are you eating paint chips from your bedroom wall? Credit cards are not addictive. Spending can be addictive, but not credit cards.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't want you in a postition of power telling the saints what they can and can't do. Next you will be saying not to pay our taxes because they are the will of Satan.
Spending on credit cards is very addictive. Google credit card addiction and see if any of the thousands of articles tell you that this is such a real thing that some psycologists have named it: check out this article from a professor at Indiana university.
ReplyDeleteThe cure for shopoholism is to start making purchases with cash, check or debit card. In other words, the cure for the addiction is to not use credit cards, the method that the addiction is solidified. They are connected and if you don't see that you are the idiot.
Find one page that says that your spending addiction has nothing to do with credit cards... seriously. Find one. After all you are the one saying that I am wrong, prove it!
Why should I prove something that you yourself cannot prove. Citing a few web sites does not make anything true.
ReplyDeleteWith your same logic we should get rid of green bills since that too is addictive. How the heck are you going to pay your tithing if cash, checks, and coins are addictive?
You don't have to prove anything. But you claiming that I am eating paint chips is a pretty strong accusation for someone who isn't willing to tell me how I am wrong. Seems like, if I am crazy as you say I am, that it would not be hard for you to disprove me. I have shown that this is a pretty real and evident problem in the world today.
ReplyDeleteSeems to me that you have no real opinion other than everyone else is stupid. Very grade school of you.
You assume things that are not to be assumed. I see you lacking the ability to debate without going the low road of name calling. I would expect a stronger articulation of thoughts coming from someone who is willing to blog their daily political expressions.
ReplyDeleteYou say that I have resorted to name calling, but you are the one that accused me of eating paint chips. Plus you have made conclusions about my "assumptions" that find no place in my comments. I never said that money was evil, or addictive. Credit is not money. Credit can be addictive.
ReplyDeleteI will give you sources since you seem to not be willing to do so with your disagreement of my thesis.
Credit Card Nation: The Consequences of America's addition to Credit - Contemporary Sociology; Jul2003, Vol. 32 Issue 4, p464-465. This is a peer reviewed book published by the University of Connecticut
Rational exuberance at the mall: addiction to carrying a credit card balance. - Applied Economics; 3/20/2006, Vol. 38 Issue 5, p587-59
Both are peer reviewed sources including backing data to show that in America and in other countries credit card addition is not only real but is the source of a few other sociological maladies.
Not to mention that inspired men have counseled against it:
Joseph B. Wirthlin, “Earthly Debts, Heavenly Debts,” Liahona, May 2004, 40–43. The article states - "Remember this: debt is a form of bondage. It is a financial termite. When we make purchases on credit, they give us only an illusion of prosperity. We think we own things, but the reality is, our things own us.
Some debt—such as for a modest home, expenses for education, perhaps for a needed first car—may be necessary. But never should we enter into financial bondage through consumer debt without carefully weighing the costs."
Then there is the article (while not by a general authority is still on the church website) Jerry Mason, “Debt Addiction: You Can Break the Habit,” Ensign, Jun 1991, 28.
Now, you may think that I am assuming things that are not to be assumed. I ask you to reconcile your statement that I am wrong in light of both secular and spiritual EVIDENCE that I am spot on. Go ahead, I am waiting.
Mr. Geoff is addicted to being stupid. "How the heck are you going to pay your tithing if cash, and coins are addictive?" Cash and coin first of all are hard currency as apposed to credit which is not so your comparing apples to oranges. (That's a technical term for these things aren't comparable. I put it in food terms because I'm making assumptions of my own, in this case that your fat and the food analogy would hold your interest.) Further more without cash or coin we could just do what the members did back in the day and pay tithing out of the goods they created I.E. food products and the like.
ReplyDeleteIn all seriousness fatty Geoff, if your just going to come in and throw bombs that's fine but I would like it much more if we could lay down the insults and have a rational discussion.
As I have done previously, I am going to step in here with personal experience.
ReplyDeleteIn my practice, I think it is safe to say that at least one-fourth of my clients are addicted to credit. Not addicted to spending, but addicted to credit. Most of those clients have NO material possessions to show for their "spending" except for large credit card bills.
When you look at a "normal" (read: non-self-employed) person who has more than twenty different credit cards, zero assets, and zero secured debt, I would call that an addiction. If it were simply an addiction to spending, you would certainly expect to see at least a television on their asset list, as well as a secured debt to their local furniture store.
When you have a client who calls you up two months after filing a bankruptcy saying that they took out a pay-day loan to make their credit card payment that month... that would be an addiction to credit. (Not to mention a violation of bankruptcy laws.)
When you have a client paying for credit cards with cash advances on other credit cards, that would be an addiction.
Credit addiction is a very real problem, one that is not helped by lending practices or state/federal legislation. It is as real as alcoholism, nicotine addiction, or p*rn addiction. It is just as insidious and has been counseled against (see above) by prophets of God.
I like you IM. Not just because we think alike but you are willing to share solid, well thought out commentary without accusation of paint chip consumption.
ReplyDeleteThank you for adding something of value to the conversation.