I found the following from a Dr. Peter Hammond, who runs a Christian fellowship in South Africa working to combat Marxist forces in that country which are trying to win the hearts and minds of the people there. He puts up some quotes that must be read....
THE HEART OF COMMUNISM
Much as been said about the economics and social analysis of Marxism, but as a Christian, I want to look at the heart of Communism. Beneath all the philosophical verbage and political rhetoric, what is the driving force of Marxist-Leninism?
“Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism.” Vladimir Lenin.
“We must HATE. Hatred is the basis of Communism.” Lenin
“Hatred is an element of the struggle, a relentless hatred of the enemy…transforming him into an effective, violent and selective, cold blooded killing machine. A people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy.” Che Guevare.
“I wish to avenge myself against the One who rules above.” Karl Marx.
“The hellish vapours rise and fill the brain, till I go mad and my heart is utterly changed. See this sword? The prince of darkness sold it to me.” Karl Marx.
“With disdain I will throw my gauntlet full in the fact of the world and see the collapse of this pygmy giant… Then will I wander god-like and victorious through the ruins of the world. And giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator.” Karl Marx
“Karl Marx is a monster possessed by ten thousand devils.” Frederick Engels.
Karl Marx “had the devil’s view of the world and the devil’s malignity. Sometimes he seemed to know that he was accomplishing the works of evil.” Robert Payne (a friend of Karl Marx).
“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen. WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.” Velchernaia Moskva (a Marxist newspaper).
The slogan of the Soviets in their early days was: “Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth, and God from Heaven.”“The World has never before known a godlessness as organised, miltarised and tenaciously malevolent as that preached by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin and at the heart of their psychology, HATRED OF GOD is the principle driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions.
Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot. To achieve its diabolical ends, Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails a destruction of faith and nationhood. Communists proclaim both of these objectives openly, and just as openly put them into practice.” Alexander Solzhenitsyn (Quoted from “A History of Communism in South Africa ” by Henry Pike (CMI) and “Was Karl Marx a Satanist?” by Richard Wurmbrand (CMI).
What, then, can we say about those church leaders who could preach in front of the bloodstained Soviet flag, under which many millions of Christians have been butchered?
What are we to think about those ministers who hold ‘talks” with Marxist terrorists and promote these murderers as a government?
What are to conclude about those clergymen who claim that (godless, atheistic) Communism and Christianity have much in common and should merge?
What can we believe about church documents that justify the mob violence, petrol bombings, stoning and public burnings of innocent people, advocate civil disobedience, and demand that all Christians “participate in the struggle”, working under the political organisations “of the masses”?
What must we do about a “theology” that is based on a Marxist analysis of socio-political history, ignores the clear teachings of Scripture, justifies and advocates violence, causes bloodshed, works for revolution and uncritically supports Communist terrorists?
Let us never forget what Communism has done in Russia , China , North Korea , Hungary , Czechoslovakia , Poland , Romania , Bulgaria , East Germany , Albania , Cuba , Cambodia , Viet Nam , Laos , Afghanistan , Nicaragua , Ethiopia , Mozambique , Angola and Zimbabwe . The millions imprisoned in concentration camps, the hunger and starvation, the civil wars, the persecution of Christians, the buttering of pastors, the destruction of churches, the burning of Bibles, the massacres, the fear and the horror.
Let us never forget the results of this evil anti-Christ religion of Communism. And may we be faithful to God’s Word, loyal to Christ and steadfast in our prayers for the suffering Christians. May we be brave in our opposition to Communism and bold in our proclamation of the truth of God’s Word.
-Dr. Peter Hammond
Now I turn to a quote from Michael Harrington, founder of the Democratic Socialists of America.
"Karl Marx (and Frederich Engels) was a democratic socialist in the most profound sense of the phrase. More importantly for the purposes of this essay, the vision, methodology and analyses which are Marx’s living heritage are democratic as theories and as guides to praxis. Indeed, I would argue that the development of Marxism since the death of Marx and Engels has made this last point so compelling that […] those who do not understand it or, worse, who take up arms against it, are anti-Marxists no matter what they call themselves."
-Praxis International, (1:1) April 1981, (I found a link to this on the DSA website)
Sounds like the DSA founder picked a wonderful role model in Karl Marx.
I am continuing my study of socialism in order to be open-minded, and I still am not impressed...
The more I am learning, the better free-market capitalism and decentralized government under the precepts in the Bill of Rights becomes to me.
That's all for now....
Communism is a failed system. It is based on coercion, requires a police state, and attempts to control every part of the economy. Like any ideologically based system that refuses to be practical, it fails.
ReplyDeleteDemocratic socialism has nothing to do with communism. Marx was a revolutionary thinker in the area of economics and many of his ideas were clearly on the mark, but like most humans, he was far from infallible. Rigid adherence to Marxist ideology is just as stupid as rigid adherence to the ideology of Milton Friedman.
Democratic socialism doesn't believe that every aspect of the economy and every aspect of people's lives should be under state control. We believe that the question of whether the state should intervene in one or another situation should be based on two things: pragmatism and democracy. If the market isn't working and the people want their government to step in and make sure necessary goods and services are provided then fine. But if the market is working and there's no demand from the citizenry to change (as there won't be if the marketplace is working), then government should butt out.
Keep reading, you're bound to learn something, but you might try reading Michael Harrington instead of some obscure South African conflating anti-communism and Christianity.
Rigid adherence to the ideology of Milton Friedman would be bliss.
ReplyDeleteNot unless you were one of the 1% of the population who ended up with all the wealth.
ReplyDeleteCharles D you are not being completely honest here. Communism DOES have something to do with Democratic Socialism, though they are not identical. If they were the exact saqme they would not be termed two differnt ways. I got that. But they do have alot in common, and you need to be honest about that. They both stem from Marxist ideology.
ReplyDeleteAs a LDS person, I can readily see from Marx's own words that his philosophies are wholly incompatible with my belief system.
I notice you have not challenged the quotes from him. I have looked them all up independently after reading Peter Hammond's reciting of them. All three exist and none are taken out of context, nor the other quotes. It is quite clear that drinking any of the philosophy of Karl Marx is drinking from a poison stream. Doesnt matter whether it is the outgrowth of communism or the "new and improved" democratic socialism.
Both systems want to abolish private property to one degree or another. Both systems are incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. "Christian Socialism" is a term made to co-opt religion and dupe believers into accepting this garbage.
Please dont try to distance Michael Harrington from Karl Marx. The facts do not bear that out.
Why do you relegate my source as obscure? Peter Hammond is to evangelical Christainity in South Africa as Billy Graham is to the United States. He is huge down there. Just because you have never heard of him does not mean he is obscure. And his findings are not some conflation. The message is clear. Marxist thought is fundamentally anti-Christian. So is nearly every other communist/socialist piece of thought I have read in my life.
What you never dealt with in your comment is the quotes from Marx, and Lenin and others about religious matters. That was the crux of the post, and you have not engaged that.
Pahoran, I think you're reading things in here. Communism and democratic socialism both spring from the teaching of Marx, but they went in very different directions. Communism attained power through revolution and maintained it through oppression, while democratic socialism attains and maintains power through the ballot box. I can recommend http://www.dsausa.org/pdf/TheoryPractice.pdf a brief essay on Marx and democratic socialism.
ReplyDeletePeter Hammond may be the Billy Graham of South Africa but it hardly gives him any credibility to discuss political science or economics. Democratic socialism is no more or less Christian than free-market capitalism. Both are political/economic systems and as the Bible says, "by their fruits shall you know them". A system that results in all the wealth being concentrated in a small percentage of the population while the vast majority struggle to get by is not one that is following the life principles taught by Jesus. A system that works to make sure that the "least of these" is fed, clothed, housed and cared for when sick is far more in line with the Sermon on the Mount.
Charles D, I am not buying your argument that capitalism concentrates wealth on only a small percentage. Perhaps this comes from a far different definition of wealth. I have four children, a wife, a home and multiple cars. I eat every meal, I have clothes on my back. I am barely able to meet my obligations, yet I consider myself wealthy.
ReplyDeleteDue in part to the fact that I have all these things in my life, but more so because I embrace the freedom to pursue happiness, to work and make a living, to have shelter and not be forced to believe a certain way. This makes me wealthy beyond what other countries experience for sure.
With regards to your attempt to explain socialism in a religious, or at least Christian backdrop, we must not take the spiritual buffet approach and only pick the parts of the bible we like. For example, Matthew 7:14 states, Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Why is it that few find it? Is it not available to all... no it is. Then why are there few that find it?
Maybe, like Christianity, Capitalism does not shun taking care the poor and the needy, but rather understands why there are even poor and needy in the first place and encourages them to feed themselves as a higher ideal. Socialism gives a man a fish, capitalism teaches the man to fish for himself.
You act like socialism has a lock on charity. I would encourage you to read this post for further discussion on the issue. But I see no part of capitalism that shuns, equal opportunities for all to experience the wealth spoken of above.
In other words, socialism does not have the monopoly on charity or charitable acts. In fact the system itself pawns the responsibility to be charitable on the soul-less government and away from the people itself. That sounds decidedly anti-Christian to me.
Charles D,
ReplyDeleteWhat gives you any credibility to speak on political and economic issues? Since the Bible speaks on both of these fronts, why should a adherent of that book not be able to comment on the contrast between the teachings found there with other solutions offered in the world?
You still are missing the mark here. Look beyond whom I sourced as having found the quotes of Marx from. FOCUS ON THE QUOTES THEMSELVES. YOU HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THEM. MY POINT IS WHAT MARX HAS TO SAY ABOUT RELIGIOUS ISSUES.
It does not matter to me that Communism and Democratic Socialism went in wildly diffeent directions. My point is to look at the spiritual views of the man whose worldview influenced them both. As a Latter-day Saint, why would I want ANY of what MARX has to offer?
I do not even believe that the two systems are as wildly diffeent as you think they are. For example, they both advocate for the abolition of private property.I will make a post about this soon.
Charles,
ReplyDeleteInteresting how your guy Harrington describes Marx as a democratic socilaist in the truest sense. Now if that be the case, why would I want the philosophy of a man who held God in such contempt? His closest ally in the work, Engles, later in his life described Marx as a man possessed with ten thousand devils.
He has inspired men like Lenin who teach that Athiesm and Hatred are the way to power. I AM looking at the fruit of marxism. He was a common influence on the greatest mass murderers of the 20th century.
On the democratic socialism side we have people preaching the seizure of large amounts of private property and enterprise. People who preach loss of sovreignty at the local and national levels in favor of woldwide collectives.
Why would I want any of that?
You might not.
ReplyDelete